Everything which is in Hungary’s interest, and nothing which is not

„According to the left, one of the things at stake in this election is the question of whether we belong to the East or the West. Can the election on 3 April be interpreted this way?

No. We have always felt that the choice ‘East or West’ is a false dilemma. East and West, everything, which is in Hungary’s interest, and nothing which is not. This is what Hungarian conservative thinkers have been saying since the 19th century.

The whole world sympathizes with the president of Ukraine, whose country has been invaded by the Russians, and who has also sent a message to the Hungarian government: you have to pick a side!

But our primary duty is to protect the Hungarian people: it is they who have entrusted us with representing their interests. It is natural that in such a conflict we are on the side of the attacked party: we have launched one of the largest humanitarian programmes in Hungarian history, and we are taking in large numbers of Ukrainian refugees. On the other hand, there are requests that we cannot fulfil, because we do not want to risk the peace and security of Hungary, and the lives and security of those to whom we are primarily responsible. In this, we are also complying with one of the principles of medieval Christian theology, which was that one has a greater responsibility for one’s own family and nation than for humanity as a whole.

In an interview, you said that Russian President Vladimir Putin was an ‘an aggressor according to international law’. Diplomatic, certainly. Are those in government deliberately avoiding tougher wording?

What would you suggest?

Dictator?

If you like, if it’s important to you.

The left has said that the government is too cautious in this, too. For instance, Putin's name is never uttered.

Look, when it comes to political communication, it’s worth first clarifying what the goal is, then working out what wording best contributes to achieving that goal. Since the outbreak of the war, we have reiterated in a thousand ways that we condemn Russia's actions. Parliament also passed a resolution to this effect, which everyone is free to read. We also endorsed the brutal, joint EU sanctions, which are painful for all parties, and the Russians have put us on the list of unfriendly countries. Now, however, what is most important is not to release additional statements which further inflame the situation, but to cool tempers. All communication which promotes peace is good, while all communication that impedes peace is bad. Unfortunately, I see that in some countries – mainly because of the press – the scope for meaningful discourse to better and more dispassionately understand the situation has narrowed. But that is not a route we want to go down.

Yet the West does appear united, and by not extending sanctions to energy, has also shown itself to be exceptionally pragmatic.

That’s precisely the point. So far, the Western world has taken the same steps as Hungary. All the decisions taken so far by the EU and NATO have the support of Hungary, while we likewise share their views regarding the rejected proposals. In other words, most countries share our view of the war. That’s enough for us, we don’t need to meet the expectations of the Western media and politicians, and never have.

So in the end, Agnes Kunhalmi may have been right when she said that the opposition would not have acted differently in the current situation?

We would not go that far.

Left-wing politicians say they would not send weapons or troops to Ukraine either, but Fidesz nonetheless says they would. What is the truth?

The truth is that what the left is doing is unbelievably dangerous. According to Ferenc Gyurcsány, Hungarians will either go off to die on the Ukrainian front or else they’ll become a ‘rotten’ people.  Meanwhile, Gergely Karácsony and Péter Márki-Zay compete with each other to see who could better fulfil the requests of the Ukrainian president. And those requests are clear: guns and troops. Clear as day. The left always parrots whatever the international liberal media expects of it, and that is no different now. However, the stakes are no longer trivial, this is about the lives of Hungarians, so we must reject the irresponsible statements of the opposition more firmly than usual. In fact, it is fortunate that the parliamentary elections are taking place at this defining, fateful moment. It would have unpredictable consequences, and leave the country extremely vulnerable, if power were to fall into the hands of left-wing politicians who are now behaving like windvanes. We would be justified in believing that in such a situation, Hungary's strength, foreign policy manoeuvring room, and ability to assert its economic interests would very quickly plummet. That is why we believe that the stakes have never been higher in any election since 1989, and that the question of which side is worth supporting has never been clearer. I hope, given the current situation, that we will be endorsed by a large number of those who have never previously considered voting for the right.

On the other hand, according to the left, a change of government would result in a significant increase in EU funding, which we have not received so far because it has been »stolen by Orbán«.

Be in no doubt, the EU will supply funding whichever way the election goes. Following a letter from the prime minister, a major decision was made last week regarding more than one hundred billion forints, or approximately 270 million euros. This shows even Brussels recognizes that Hungary and its neighbours are bearing the brunt of the refugee crisis. I am more afraid that if the left came to power, it would waste EU funding in the same way it did between 2004 and 2010. Pointless projects, corruption scandals, blocked payments. It took years after 2010 to put right the chaos they left behind. The use of resources has since accelerated and become more efficient, as even German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has been critical of us in many regards, acknowledged. An attempt of Brussels to blackmail us over the child protection law has failed, and everyone expects an agreement after the election.

According to the European Commission, aid is not being sent due to problems related to the rule of law and corruption.

This is merely a pretext. That is why what we talked about earlier is so important: namely, that all authoritative analyses to date have refuted these allegations, and instead state that EU funds have contributed more to economic growth in Hungary than elsewhere. This could not be true if the money had been stolen, or if the Hungarian justice system was not functioning properly. The only reason for this attempted blackmail is that the Hungarian government does not follow liberal ideological trends. However, it is stated nowhere in the Treaties that only governments which support LGBTQ ideas can lead EU member states. So to act as though this were the case is indefensible.

Can Polish-Hungarian friendship withstand differences of opinion over Russia? Will the unity of the Visegrád Four endure?

Absolutely – I am convinced of that. And this conviction is not merely a matter of political opinion or emotional identification, but the result of realistic thinking that recognizes a geopolitical unity of interest. The basis of our cooperation is that in this large EU space we can only represent our interests by working together. This does not mean that we must always agree on everything. I recently attended a large meeting of national conservatives in Brussels, where political theologian Yoram Hazony spoke about this topic. Always agreeing on everything is the essence of liberal thinking. Two liberals in the farthest reaches of the world think the same way and want the same things. National conservative thinking, on the other hand, does not work that way. We recognize the existence of independent and free nations with their own wills, between which there may be points of disagreement based on national interest. In such cases, different approaches must be tolerated, while further opportunities for cooperation must be constantly sought. I am convinced that at the end of the day, this ideological position is most characteristic of the Visegrád countries.

According to some interpretations, the parties of the European right-wing renaissance have been weakened by their former relationship with Putin. Is this a real phenomenon?

That is not what this is about. A state of war generally strengthens current ruling parties. Unfortunately, in Western Europe, national-conservative forces today are largely in opposition, so they are weakening. In our region, it is generally the other way around, and so these parties also seem to be getting stronger.

On the topic of ideology: the SDP-Green-Liberal government in Germany is preparing a large-scale rearmament project, buying energy from Qatar – hardly a model democracy – and may reverse its shutdown of all nuclear power stations. Another pragmatic turn?

We're as well amused. The coalition agreement in Berlin produced an ideologically bizarre, one might say ‘woke-oriented’ government program. All the same, the crisis has also awakened the Germans, and we are beginning to see a responsible, fundamentally consistent and rational attitude we would expect from the strongest country in Europe. German-Hungarian dialogue is going on in the background. Other important elections will be held in Serbia, Slovenia, and France in April. After that, the European political landscape will be further clarified.

To what extent could it prove an obstacle to the EU enlargement favoured by the Hungarian government that Serbia is once again drawing closer to Russia?

The interpretation of the liberal media is undercut by the fact that at the UN, Serbia supported the resolution condemning Russia. This is not a black and white issue, in other words: Serbia is following Serbian interests, and we have to respect that. One of the lessons of the war between Russia and Ukraine is precisely that Europe cannot afford to alienate its own neighbourhood in terms of economic, political and cultural cooperation. Someone is always trapped in a power vacuum. To put it another way, the crisis also justifies the acceleration of EU enlargement in the Balkans, which the Hungarian government has long been pushing for. If we do not want another conflict to escalate in the Western Balkans, and perhaps even a situation similar to that in Ukraine, we must act in this area as quickly as possible.

What are the chances of reducing our energy dependence on Russia?

So far, we have not failed in terms of substantial diversification, despite the absence of Western commitment. We did everything we could at the national level to strengthen energy sovereignty, building a number of interconnectors, supporting all Western pipeline plans, repurchasing gas storage facilities, and beginning to exploit renewable energy sources. However, the left's current demand that we shut down Russian gas would put Hungarian people and businesses in an impossible position. The price of this war should not be paid by the Hungarian people.

It was not possible to import natural gas from Romania.

This also confirms what I said: unfortunately, the Americans were premature in their withdrawal from Romania – ExxonMobil left the consortium exploiting the Black Sea gas field just last year. We are encouraging everyone to invest, and encouraging Brussels to be more persistent in developing alternative routes. In return, we can promise that, as before, Hungary will always be a partner in these initiatives.

An agreement has recently been reached with the United States to increase the supply of liquefied natural gas. Is this a positive step?

A good start. For the time being, however, there is insufficient reception capacity, meaning that even if America sent more, it could not be used to fully replace Russian gas in Europe. Let us be honest: American shale gas has not broken into the European market so far because for the Americans it was not worth exporting, and for the Europeans it was not worth importing. If an agreement can be reached now and prices are reasonable, it could potentially be a good option. In any case, we will continue to support the infrastructure development needed to expand reception capacity.

According to the left opposition leader Péter Márki-Zay, by financing the expansion of the Paks nuclear power plant, Hungary is financing Putin's war. Is the cancellation of Paks II realistic?

This is one of the most astonishing proposals from the left. Let us be clear: if the new Paks plant is not operational in time, we will sooner or later have to face extremely serious supply difficulties and prices will soar. The implementation of the project is being conducted by an international consortium on a Russian basis, but in cooperation with Western companies. In terms of the technology, there is no way that the Russian input can be replaced. If, on the other hand, we were to start over again, we would not be able to replace the decommissioned reactors by the end of the decade, and Hungary’s electricity supply would collapse. However, as energy is not currently covered by the sanctions policy, and the European Commission has recognized nuclear as a green energy source, everything is proceeding as planned for the time being. Most importantly, peace should return as soon as possible. We hope that the warring parties will see this as soon as possible.

Another topic. You are also the chairman of the board of trustees of the Mathias Corvinus Collegium, and the press recently announced that the organization, which operates in the form of a public foundation, will receive 28 billion forints from the proceeds of its MOL shares. What is this being spent on?

I am in a fortunate position, given that in 2020, at a time of the changeover, I could only speak about our plans, while today our results speak for themselves. The MCC community has expanded to more than five thousand students, and the final number is expected to reach ten thousand. Today, we operate in twenty-three locations, which will rise to over thirty in a few years. Our extensive engagement in Transylvania has begun, and provincial university programs are already running. We are organizing professional festivals, free universities, renowned foreign guest speakers, have published dozens of books in one year, and organize hundreds of public professional events all over the country every year. I could go on and on. The essence of the structure is that the foundation spends the funds from the share packages and other subsidies provided to us for the free training of the most talented Hungarian children from across the Carpathian Basin. A worthier aim could hardly be imagined.

Can non-Fidesz young people also benefit from this?

Of course. We have two expectations of our students. One is that they should strive to be among the best, not only at home, but also internationally, and we support them in that. The other is a kind of patriotism that we do not understand in party-political terms. Young Hungarians should show an openness to Hungarian values and culture. These aspects are of a national strategic nature. Unity in these and freedom in all else are the characteristics of the MCC.”

Fotó: Ficsor Márton